{"id":49504,"date":"2022-05-19T11:24:29","date_gmt":"2022-05-19T11:24:29","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/?p=129081"},"modified":"2022-05-19T11:24:29","modified_gmt":"2022-05-19T11:24:29","slug":"in-country-i-feel-like-the-magic-of-songwriting-is-still-very-apparent-and-very-dominant","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/businessnewsbox.com\/?p=49504","title":{"rendered":"\u2018In country, I feel like the magic of songwriting is still very apparent and very dominant.\u2019"},"content":{"rendered":"

MBW\u2019s World\u2019s Greatest Songwriters series celebrates the pop composers behind the globe\u2019s biggest hits. Here, we talk to Ashley Gorley, one of the most successful country music writers of the last 20 years, about his tough early years, his biggest hits, the problem with streaming, selling his catalog and working with Morgan Wallen. World\u2019s Greatest Songwriters is supported by AMRA \u2013 the global digital music collection society which strives to maximize value for songwriters and publishers in the digital age<\/a>.<\/p>\n

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Worth noting: Our interview with Gorley took place a couple of weeks before it was announced he\u2019d inked a major new global publishing deal<\/a> with Sony Music Publishing [625 articles]” href=”https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/companies\/sony\/sony-music-group\/sony-music-publishing\/”>Sony Music Publishing<\/a> (and sold a catalog to Sony [1,574 articles]” href=”https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/companies\/sony\/”>Sony<\/a> x Domain Capital).<\/strong> <\/em><\/p>\n

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In the 21 years since Ashley Gorley started out as a Nashville songwriter, he has scored over 50 No. 1 records across various sales, airplay and genre charts, been named The American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers (ASCAP) [289 articles]” href=”https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/companies\/the-american-society-of-composers-authors-and-publishers-ascap\/”>ASCAP<\/a>\u2019s Country Songwriter of the Year eight times, NSAI Songwriter of the Year five times, and Billboard [869 articles]” href=”https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/companies\/billboard\/”>Billboard<\/a>\u2019s Top Country Songwriter five times.<\/p>\n

The hits that have garnered that impressive list of achievements and accolades (and those are just the highlights) have been recorded by artists including Luke Bryan, Jason Aldean, Florida Georgia Line, Carrie Underwood, Blake Shelton, Thomas Rhett and Morgan Wallen (Gorley co-wrote four songs on Wallen\u2019s record-breaking 2021 album, Dangerous<\/em>)<\/p>\n

He is country music royalty, embedded in the establishment. And, at the same time, something of an interloper and proud outsider.<\/p>\n

Growing up in Central Kentucky (\u201cthere\u2019s no music in my family at all, by the way, I\u2019m just a weirdo\u201d), he describes himself as \u201can MTV kid, raised on nineties R&B, hip-hop and pop\u201d. Babyface remains perhaps his ultimate writer\/producer hero.<\/p>\n

\u201cBut, at the same time, I lived in a small town, I worked on a farm in the summers, I was actually doing all the things people do in country songs.\u201d<\/p>\n

He moved to Nashville not to write songs, but to study the music industry at college, \u201cand because it was less scary than moving to LA or New York\u201d. The plan was to break into publishing, hopefully focused on A&R. \u201cI didn\u2019t go there chasing a dream at all\u201d, he reflects, honestly.<\/p>\n

\u201cAnd then, when I interned for some publishers, I would work till six o\u2019clock, and then write [music] with strangers from six to midnight, go home and do it all over again.\u201d<\/p>\n

The result was a dozen or so songs which, in 2000, earned Gorely \u201ca very basic, very small writing deal \u2013 and I probably didn\u2019t even deserve that\u201d.<\/p>\n

The next few years, he admits, were tough: \u201cI was living on a small draw, I was sweeping warehouses, working at trucking companies. And once I got married, we were barely getting by. My wife was teaching kindergarten and I was trying to be a songwriter, two terribly paid jobs between us.<\/p>\n

\u201cBut I was never frustrated. As long as I could put \u2018songwriter\u2019 as my occupation on my taxes, I thought I\u2019d made it. I didn\u2019t have a goal of having this or that many hits, or anything like that. I just wanted to do it for a living.\u201d<\/p>\n

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Gorley says his wife\u2019s support was crucial in those barren first few years. \u201cShe never once said, \u2018Hey, do you want to maybe think about Plan B? Or getting a real job?\u2019<\/p>\n

\u201cYou have to believe in yourself, of course, but the people around you have to believe in you too, because they\u2019re in it with you.\u201d<\/p>\n

After a handful of minor cuts, Gorley\u2019s life changed when Carrie Underwood, fresh from her success on American Idol<\/em>, recorded Don\u2019t Forget To Remember Me<\/em> [co-written with Morgane Hayes and Kelley Lovelace] for her debut album, Some Hearts<\/em> [2005]. It was released as the third single and reached No. 2 on the Billboard Hot Country charts.<\/p>\n

Partly, Gorley says, he had \u201csimply got better\u201d, but he had also become a more truthful writer, putting his life into his songs, whilst always remembering those big hooks and banging choruses from MTV.<\/p>\n

He says: \u201cI think country music has its own language, it hits people in the heart. I sometimes see pop songs as like fantasy, a lot of times you\u2019re talking about a life that people wish they had. Country talks about the life you really have, and that your fans have. It\u2019s hard to fake. It has to be kind of ingrained in you, in the way that you talk and think and believe and live and love, everything like that.<\/p>\n

\u201cAlso, in country, I feel like the magic of songwriting is still very apparent and very dominant. I got songs recorded by Tim McGraw, George Strait, Blake Shelton, people who I had never met. And they certainly didn\u2019t know who I was. I had no connections at all. But they really do just take the best song, which is great news for songwriters and especially for unknown songwriters.\u201d<\/p>\n

Gorley has also done his bit for unknown songwriters, establishing his own publishing company, Tape Room, in 2011, specifically to discover and nurture new talent.<\/p>\n

It now has 12 writers who between them have chalked up over 30 Country No. 1s.<\/p>\n

Whether or not any of current cohort will go on to have a career that usurps the resum\u00e9 of the man who helped them get started is impossible to say. But if any of them ever do go up to collect a ninth ASACP Award, or a sixth NSAI win, what seems certain is that Gorley will be in the front row, applauding and cheering louder than anyone\u2026<\/p>\n

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How did life change after you\u2019d have that first big hit with Carrie Underwood?<\/h6>\n

I think the most important thing is that once you figure out you can do it, once you hit your first home run, then you truly know you have the capability to hit it over the fence. All of a sudden your confidence changes and everything kind of changes around you.<\/p>\n

That said, it was about three years after that by the time I had the next one [laughs], but I definitely had more confidence in my writing.<\/p>\n

I was pushing the envelope instead of just doing things that are normal, I was starting to add things to the songs that were unique.<\/p>\n

I got on a really good run. Luke Bryan recorded a bunch of my songs [including four Hot Country No. 1s on his 2013 album, Crash My Party<\/em>]<\/p>\n

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Which of your songs are you proudest of? Not necessarily the songs that have been most successful, but perhaps mean the most to you?<\/h6>\n

Yeah, I have a different perspective on that. I think simple-sounding smash hit songs that everybody can dance to are really hard, even harder than sad heartbreak songs.<\/p>\n

So sometimes I actually am proud of songs like That\u2019s My Kind of Night<\/em> [2013], for Luke [Bryan], that people maybe think I wouldn\u2019t be especially proud of, because those are so tough to come up with.<\/p>\n

But if you boiled it down it would be songs like You\u2019re Gonna Miss This<\/em> [Trace Adkins, 2007], Marry Me<\/em> [Thomas Rhett, 2017], I Lived It<\/em> [Blake Shelton, 2017], Remember You Young<\/em> [Thomas Rhett, 2019], Sand in my Boots<\/em> [Morgan Wallen, 2021], things like that. Those songs where truth comes through are really hard to beat.<\/p>\n

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Have you had certain sessions or collaborations that have been difficult or challenging, and how do you get past those sort of situations?<\/h6>\n

Y\u2019know, I don\u2019t have a ton of those stories. I\u2019m in a place where I don\u2019t write with anybody that I wouldn\u2019t also sit down and watch a ball game with. I\u2019m in a really fortunate position where I don\u2019t have to chase stuff down.<\/p>\n

But, anytime a session gets slow\u2026 y\u2019see I like to write the song on the spot, or at least get the skeleton of the song in a few minutes at the beginning and spend the rest of the day kind of putting in the color and the detail, editing and stuff like that.<\/p>\n

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\u201cI don\u2019t write with anybody that I wouldn\u2019t also sit down and watch a ball game with.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

So, anybody that is like very slow and methodical, who wants to write from the top down, one line at a time, I\u2019m not very good at that; I don\u2019t have the patience for that. I just want to hear what the whole thing would sound like and see if it\u2019s worth it first.<\/p>\n

And anybody that is dead set on finishing a song that\u2019s a \u2018B\u2019, that\u2019s not amazing, I\u2019ll bail on that, because I\u2019m like, hey, we already know this is not great, let\u2019s start over.<\/p>\n

Also, if somebody is really trying to chase something that\u2019s purposely not commercial, I have a hard time with that, because I instinctively go toward melodies that are memorable.<\/p>\n

Generally, though, I\u2019m proud of the fact that I can be a chameleon and blend in with whatever the session is.<\/p>\n

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You tend to work with one or two co-writers. What do you think of the current trend for many more writers, sometimes 10+, getTING writing credits?<\/h6>\n

I think that\u2019s strange; I think at some point there are too many cooks. A song like Sicko Mode<\/em> [ Travis Scott [140 articles]” href=”https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/artists\/travis-scott\/”>Travis Scott<\/a>, 2018], with 20-something writers on it, I don\u2019t think that could ever happen in the business that I\u2019m in.<\/p>\n

But that might be because lot of other genres credit a writer for maybe playing a guitar part, or adding a high hat, or adding a low end, something like that. We don\u2019t. We separate the writing and production in Nashville.<\/p>\n

I think that\u2019s a little bit of a dangerous trend, just in terms of the income. Streaming has already broken it down to so little already, and then if you\u2019re splitting it between so many people\u2026 I\u2019m always for the next generation, I want them to be able to make a living at this.<\/p>\n

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What\u2019s your health check on the state of country music right now, internationally and domestically?<\/h6>\n

Country\u2019s a little tougher than pop to go global, because a lot of the things we talk about are just down the street, in our small towns in America, and some of that that, I know, doesn\u2019t translate.<\/p>\n

Then again, for some people it does, some people love it and really have an affinity for it. Internationally, it will be interesting to see how big it could be, but I can\u2019t imagine an Adele [354 articles]” href=”https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/artists\/adele\/”>Adele<\/a> type act coming up in country.<\/p>\n

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\u201cYou can write a song one day and know what three million people think about by the time you get home. The whole world\u2019s an A&R department.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

As far as the US is concerned, I\u2019m very positive about it. Not necessarily regarding the business of radio and royalty payments, things like that, we have a long way to go there. But as far as the music is concerned, I think there\u2019s something for everybody.<\/p>\n

And people are also able to tell you if they like it or not straight away. It\u2019s a unique time. You can write a song one day and know what three million people think about by the time you get home. The whole world\u2019s an A&R department.<\/p>\n

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Do you think streaming has been good for country, or do the DSPs sometimes seem more focused on hip-hop, pop and other genres, maybe because they are more global?<\/h6>\n

I don\u2019t know, for me, it\u2019s more about\u2026 when I first moved to town, being a part of a project was really important and there was a magic to it. Artists put a lot into the entire album. So it gets really dangerous when people are just listening to a song or two and then moving on to the next thing.<\/p>\n

There are a lot of great albums now where people don\u2019t hear cut number nine, which might be a deeply personal and really brilliant song.<\/p>\n

But then there are things like the Morgan Wallen album where people know and love every track, so there\u2019s still room for those projects. We need to make that happen more often.<\/p>\n

I also think it\u2019s a little damaging for the creative process, because it\u2019s based on a hit, and then what\u2019s the next hit, rather than here\u2019s my body of work.<\/p>\n

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And has streaming been good for songwriters?<\/h6>\n

There are aspects that need some serious fixing, definitely. For example, if you were putting out an album and you heard one of my songs and wanted to record it, but you\u2019re a new artist, putting it out on your own and not taking it to radio \u2013 I don\u2019t stand to make any income off that song.<\/p>\n

So what we would have to do is say, \u2018If you want to record it then we have to participate in the master somehow\u2019.<\/p>\n

I mean, someone could make $300,000 from the streams on one of my songs, and I might make $37. Like, it\u2019s an insane discrepancy. It\u2019s not like it\u2019s a tenth; it\u2019s a thousandth.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s about figuring out how to how to include the publishers and writers in that huge take the labels, the master owners, get from streaming. Because the money is there, it\u2019s just a matter of distributing it properly, breaking off a little more of the master for the publishing piece. It comes down to that.<\/p>\n

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And do you think enough is being done by the most powerful people and companies to change that, or are there too many vested interests happy with the status quo?<\/h6>\n

Oh yeah, if you own a label right now, or you own the masters, you couldn\u2019t be more happy. From that point of view it\u2019s the best scenario there\u2019s ever been. Once you\u2019re dipping into that slice of the pie, things are great, but when you\u2019re just the writer and the publisher, it\u2019s really tough.<\/p>\n

A lot of people, the NSAI, National Music Publishers’ Association (NMPA) [165 articles]” href=”https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/companies\/national-music-publishers-association-nmpa\/”>the NMPA<\/a>, they do great work, it\u2019s just hard to rewrite laws when so many people who are having success don\u2019t want change. If you\u2019re Warner Music Group [2,080 articles]” href=”https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/companies\/access-industries\/warner-music-group\/”>Warner<\/a>, Sony Universal Music Group [2,700 articles]” href=”https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/companies\/universal-music-group\/”>Universal<\/a> or whatever record company, you\u2019re not in a hurry to change things necessarily.<\/p>\n

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\u201cit\u2019s not a matter of doubling or tripling the percentage publishers and songwriters get. If they increased it tenfold, it still wouldn\u2019t be enough.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

That\u2019s a really tough battle, because it will take a change of heart, or it will take a complete restructuring of the master split, and that\u2019s going to be difficult because a lot of times it\u2019s one and the same entity.<\/p>\n

For an independent publisher like us, we get the job done. We have a family atmosphere and all our writers are successful. But at the same time, they are all geared toward writing songs that could work at radio, because that\u2019s where all the income is for us.<\/p>\n

And it\u2019s sad to think, when you leave a session, I love this song, but it\u2019s not a radio song. Maybe it\u2019s too long, or too slow, or too strange \u2013 which can all be good things! But as a writer, I\u2019m just doing that for the goodness of the word, I\u2019m basically giving that away. That\u2019s kind of the mentality right now.<\/p>\n

The inevitable result is that writers think about the radio too much. So there are some songs that maybe don\u2019t come out of their soul, songs that need to be written, but they cut that idea short because they need to put food on the table.<\/p>\n

I would love it if they could figure that out, but it\u2019s going to be tougher than it appears, because it\u2019s not a matter of doubling or tripling the percentage publishers and songwriters get. If they increased it tenfold, it still wouldn\u2019t be enough.<\/p>\n

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How did you get involved with Morgan Wallen\u2019s Dangerous project, and why do you think it has been such a record-breaking success?<\/h6>\n
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I certainly don\u2019t think anybody necessarily saw it coming. We just knew that he\u2019s kind of\u2026 he\u2019s really the best. I mean, Chris Stapleton is amazing singer as well, and those two\u2026 Morgan sings so well, and he sings with such a such an energy, that it just affects people. Plus he\u2019s just insanely good at picking songs that he loves.<\/p>\n

He goes really, really country sometimes, but he\u2019s also not afraid to blend in some trap beats now and then, he kind of broke the mold with that. A lot of fans love hip-hop and they love country, and he just wasn\u2019t afraid to mesh it every now and again.<\/p>\n

Sand In My Boots<\/em>, though, that was just a piano ballad, and he simply made a great recording of that song. I didn\u2019t write that with him in mind or anything like that. He heard the song, loved it and wanted to record it.<\/p>\n

He just picks songs that he loves, and right now they just happen to be what everybody else loves. He also puts on a great show, there\u2019s a lot of heart in what he does.<\/p>\n

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\u201cA lot of fans love hip-hop and they love country, and [Wallen] just wasn\u2019t afraid to mesh it every now and again.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

But I think \u2013 and being a songwriter, I\u2019m always gonna think this \u2013 it comes down to song selection, and then performance, owning those songs, as a vocalist.<\/p>\n

And, you know, he\u2019s a small town guy that a lot of people can relate to. He goes through life, makes some mistakes, goes fishing. We needed another one of those, and if I go to the beach right now, every other bluetooth speaker is playing the Morgan album.<\/p>\n

That\u2019s good for us and good for the genre. And it gives us something to aim at too. Because, not to get into this too much, but a lot of new artists have decided they\u2019re gonna write every song that they put out. Morgan has watched for a few years and noticed that some of the biggest artists in our genre\u2019s history either don\u2019t write their own songs or write some of them.<\/p>\n

He\u2019s a great writer, but he knows he doesn\u2019t have to write them all. On Dangerous<\/em>, I wrote one with him and three others, we just pitched him. Same thing on his next project.<\/p>\n

It gives writers in town a great project to aim at, and have a little bit of pay-off, even if they don\u2019t get the single.<\/p>\n

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You mentioned that he makes mistakes. What was your view about the controversy that came with that<\/em> video \u2013 and then the fallout, being snubbed by the Grammys etc?<\/h6>\n

You know, I think it would be really difficult to be the one in the room making all those decisions [at awards ceremonies etc], because we never want to condone what was said. And he doesn\u2019t either; I\u2019ve never heard him be upset about not getting a nomination or an invite or whatever. It\u2019s not like behind closed doors he\u2019s complaining about this or that.<\/p>\n

He\u2019s like, \u2018I know that this was a mistake, and so whatever it takes.\u2019 But it was also cool, I thought, that he was able to win ACM Album of the Year, so that the record gets the credit that it deserves as a body of work.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s difficult, and I just think it was a matter of all these companies and radio stations and everyone trying to figure out what the punishment should be, if he should be completely removed from everything forever, or if we should separate the art from the actions of the artist.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s a really tricky road, there are no written rules, and I don\u2019t want to get into that conversation, really, but I will say that I like it when people own up to their mistakes and I do know that he is genuinely sorry.<\/p>\n

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Tell us about how you started by Tape Room in 2011 and what you wanted to achieve with it?<\/h6>\n

Well, we definitely go for quality over quantity, we\u2019re not trying to sign a whole lot of writers. I wanted to be a publisher as long as I\u2019ve wanted to be a songwriter. Some writers, they have some hits and then they just start signing writers under them, because that\u2019s what they\u2019re supposed to do.<\/p>\n

I was not like that. I was always wanting to find writers, coach them, I love that. I love the part of my life where I get to mentor up-and-coming writers and then see them get successful. I want my writers to go on and beat me for Writer of the Year.<\/p>\n

It also scratches the A&R itch for me, because if my writers have a bunch of songs that are better than anything I\u2019ve written lately, I get to pitch those. It basically helps me let more great songs see the light of day.<\/p>\n

We\u2019re obviously not a major corporation, I\u2019m having to run it out of my checking account, you know. But that\u2019s okay, I\u2019m happy to put my money where my mouth is.<\/p>\n

We only have three employees, we have a dozen writers, and that\u2019s a good. It\u2019s not going to get much bigger than that, maybe a little bit bigger, but I\u2019m very hands on and I want to stay that way. I want to be able to hear those songs and help those writers<\/p>\n

In fact I would say I probably need that in my work\/life balance; just writing the songs myself doesn\u2019t quite do it. I want to be part of a successful company that can find and nurture these writers, then watch and celebrate as they go from the sidelines into the main game.<\/p>\n

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What is your view in the current trend for successful writers to sell their catalogs?<\/h6>\n

I was actually a fan of that way early on, when people thought it was crazy. I\u2019m working on selling my fourth catalog right now [and now we know how this turned out<\/a>!].<\/p>\n

I also respect when people are like, Hey, I\u2019m not going to sell out my art to a hedge fund. I understand that.<\/p>\n

But the way it\u2019s going, I just think it\u2019s one of those rare things, it\u2019s a win\/win. These people will pay a writer, up front, more than they can ever make if they wait for that income to come in over 20 years.<\/p>\n

For writers like me, and writers in Nashville, it gives you another goal. You try to accumulate these hits and have enough success whereby you have a body of work you can offer up as an asset. And I think that\u2019s really cool.<\/p>\n

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\u201cFor writers like me, and writers in Nashville, it gives you another goal. You try to accumulate these hits and have enough success whereby you have a body of work you can offer up as an asset. And I think that\u2019s really cool.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Instead of just hoping they\u2019ll be able to live on royalties, they can, if they get on enough of a run, sell that catalog, get a great check, get it up front, and then they can kind of order their life. That\u2019s really become a goal for writers in Nashville.<\/p>\n

It gives an actual value to the music that writers can\u2019t find one hit at a time. And it\u2019s a great testament to writers that they\u2019ve made a dependable income stream that somebody\u2019s willing to invest in.<\/p>\n

And I\u2019m still the writer of the song, it doesn\u2019t exclude me, I\u2019ll always be the author of this work. In my opinion these deals are one of the rare times writers are paid what their works are worth.<\/p>\n

I\u2019ve also found that I love the process of, hey, that era is over, my best is yet to come. Like, I\u2019m not done, watch this.<\/p>\n

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